How to deal with

their behaviour when they are completely over tired and unable to listen to anything and every little thing sets them off?

He hasn't had a nap for 5 days now (and by the sounds of things he isn't gonna sleep today either), I even put the side back on his cot on Thursday so that he couldn't get out of bed and that just created more problems.

For a few months he didn't sleep then all of a sudden started napping again and he really does need to. For those few months it was awful, his behaviour got worse and worse and he ended up with massive dark circles under his eyes even though he was still having a solid 12-14 hours at night.

So anyway I don't think I can force him to sleep, and when he doesn't sleep he has quiet time for a couple of hours in his room, but I just need ways to deal with him when he is over tired. Timeout etc really is ineffective cos he doesn't listen to why he is putting in there, then he will scream whilst sitting there and once he does stop screaming he starts again when I try to tell him why I put him there and will slap me in the face and so forth. So I think instead of trying to punish his behaviour I need ways to redirect, calm him down and so on.

I have had some small success with getting him to sit and look at a book to calm down, but I still ended up with a book in the face when I asked him to put his pjs on (this was last night)

is his bedtime early enough? my only other suggestion is avoiding the things that get him upset if you can.

I'm going through this atm too-DS won't have a nap on his own, but will fall asleep if we go out in the car/stroller, so I think he still needs a nap. But he sleeps so much better at night without one. But his behaviour at about 3pm is shocking without one. Dither dither dither.
Anyway, sometimes I find that if something sets off a tantrum, I just have to wait it out. By the end of it, he just wants a big cuddle. Otherwise, DVDs have come in really handy when he's tired-it seems to give him a bit of a rest/zone-out, so that he can handle the late afternoon. I love you, Thomas the Tank Engine!

Bizzy he goes to bed between 6-5.45 at night, the worse his behaviour the earlier to bed he goes Never have any trouble at night and he will sleep at least 12 hours.

Unfortunately he will fall asleep in the car but only if I drive for ages and ages and ages and it's not always practical to go out cos i need to account for Kyle's sleeps and feeds as well. He never falls asleep in the buggy anymore.

Things that upset him when he is like this are, erm, everything. Kyle getting too close to a toy, Kyle making a noise he doesn't like, Kyle crawling on him (which I try to stop as much as poss), his sock not being on quite right, the cat sitting on the car outside, him trying to do something with his toys and it not working cos he is trying to defy the laws of physics, him tipping his water out, him dropping his snack on the floor, having to wait for his toast to toast. You name it he has a meltdown about it. Sometimes a tantrum and other times he is genuinely upset about it. When he's upset I can cope but when he lashes out then I start to get really wound up with him. Mostly it's Kyle that takes the brunt of it, even when he isn't doing anything to provoke him. The other thing is that he will be perfectly happy but then just come up and hit Kyle or me over nothing, or throw something at one of us, or start bashing the house with whatever he can find.
DVD's or the TV will hold his attention for maybe a minute but then if he sees Kyle doing something, or Kyle god forbid gets within 5 feet of him then he lashes out. Or even when he is happy with Kyle he will start wrestling him then take it to far.

It's like he is so tired he goes hyper and can't listen, so saying stop or no doesn't work cos he can't even hear it, putting him in time out seems to escalate his behaviour and cuddles work when he is genuinely upset but not for the other stuff.

Urgh, can really make you feel over being a parent some days.

Mmmm that's a good point Nikki, we have had problems with his ears before and we've all just had a pretty horrific cold (not quite as bad as flu but pretty horrible) and he was very bunged up with blocked nose and a bad cough. Might book him in and get them checked, it might not change things but at least I will know the reason.

Jakes sleeps for up to 4 hours a day and he still does all that stuff you mentioned up until the hitting part!!! Not every day, but some days everything upsets him. Really not looking forward to when Morgan can move and annoy him more!!!

ha ha ha....Tom will not let James near ANYTHING unless its an "approved by Tom as suitable for James" toy..ie a rattle. James is learning fast to distract Tom with one toy to get his hands on another...very sneaky!

he is into everything too. Its just occurred to me that he could be just as full on as Tom....why did we have 2????

Tom hits James constantly. Everytime I leave the room I hear James cry and Tom says "James got hurt"...or is that got hit?

Jakes naps have been ridiculous over the last few weeks too and he gets exactly the same as Spencer. His coping ability disappears and omg every 5 seconds hes on the floor wailing about something not going right or throwing stuff.
I actually put him back to bed this morning at like 9am coz he refused to get dressed so I put my foot down. He was hysterical for abit which was really upsetting but I just held him down and shushed him and talked to him and sung and hes been asleep for over an hour now.
When he starts falling apart we try to think of a few different options for him and he gets a choice of 2 like DP might say he can come check the chickens or he can read a story and then whatever he chooses DP gets him as involved as he can then we really quickly offer him another 2 options before he has time for another meltdown like I might ask him if he wants to paint or to do some baking and so on. Sometimes they're weird things like having a shower at 2.30 in the afternoon but I'll set him up with food colouring and paintbrushes and it gives him some time to himself, painting the bathroom walls which is fun and abit special. Keeps him busy and quiet and happy for a good 45 minutes to an hour. If he starts to tantrum then I ask him if he wants a hug and if he doesn't then I've got about 3 things which I know will always get through to him so I offer one of those. I find if I keep my voice low and sympathetic then he responds easier though it can take alot of control on my part coz it gets so frustrating! A favourite dvd is always an option that works. He'll get his pillow and teddy and curl up on the lazyboy for an hour or 2 - the longer he sits there the more exhausted we know he is.
I agree that when they're overtired and don't actually know what to do with themselves they don't need punishment.